i personally found this to be very enlightening.
thought i would share since we have so many here that are from over the pond.. http://www.liveleak.com/e/550_1296702880.
darth frosty
Thanks for posting these interesting facts.
As long as everyone reading your thread and subsequent postings is absolutely clear on just one thing - Scotland, and her people, make up the best part!
As always, of course, I'm totally unbiased.
lifelong humanist
here in europe, we have started different initiatives aiming at exposing publicly and legally the watchtower on the subject of ostracism, discrimination and shunning.. in the past we have seen different manifestations held in front of kingdom halls or branch offices on issues such as pedophilia and blood transfusions policies, and even, such as in france, against building of real-estates.
now it seems that the issue of discrimination against disfellowshipped or dissociated people is gaining momentum.
we have seen the large demonstrations in brazil, and maybe the lesser important ones elsewhere.
Hi Roberto
It has been very interesting observing the responses to your thread.
I'm sure that by now, everyone reading the postings will be absolutely certain of the goal that you, and many like-minded, decent ex-JWs (and those living with current JW family ties) would dearly love to achieve.
I fully agree with your well written synopsis, just posted, and look forward to the next developments, when high-profile cases come to the attention of the EU Court of Human Rights.
You should feel proud of your accomplishments so far, and arriving at a consensus on the primary objectives. This, surely, could well prove to be the small beginnings of something quite powerful - a 'dumbing down' of such an 'in-your-face', actively pursued shunning policy craftilly manipulated by WT.
Kind regards
lifelong humanist
here in europe, we have started different initiatives aiming at exposing publicly and legally the watchtower on the subject of ostracism, discrimination and shunning.. in the past we have seen different manifestations held in front of kingdom halls or branch offices on issues such as pedophilia and blood transfusions policies, and even, such as in france, against building of real-estates.
now it seems that the issue of discrimination against disfellowshipped or dissociated people is gaining momentum.
we have seen the large demonstrations in brazil, and maybe the lesser important ones elsewhere.
Roberto
I trust you had a relaxing break in the Malaga area, and you felt the heat of the sun on your face.
Here in Scotland, this winter has been even more extreme than last.
I read this post yesterday with interest. I know that you're very much a 'man on a mission' as far as naming and shaming the shunning practice so successfully employed by the JW/WT religion. Of course it would be fantastic if someone could exert a position of influence to bring about a sea change and stop this practice.
I have subsequently spoken with David in an attempt to try and find some contacts that might be able to assist you in what would inevitibly be a huge, expensive legal battle. Within the EU things are not as 'black and white'as they seem in the USA, so maybe something positive could occur.
I appreciate that you're concerned primarily with locating experienced legal counsel on upholding people's Human Rights to be treated with respect and decency, and to outlaw shunning as a means of controlling religious groups. Sadly, neither of us can provide any names that might help. We're both unsure of how effective lobbying the EU would be, other than just to create more awareness of how extreme JW/WT are. But, religions are given such leeway in how they interpret any Bill of Human Rights 'for contolling their membership' re. doctrines/practices.
Humanist organizations deplore the shunning practice, too. However, there is nothing they can do to prevent JW/WT from acting in this way, as they could claim that their HRs are being ignored, due to their own interpretation of their religious dogma. Maybe, some seriously prominent JW test-case could generate enough adverse publicity from those shunned to help the general public understand how brutal this practice can be, and damaging it can be for families caught up with it.
When I DAd in 2003, I was fully aware of how nasty it could turn out for me. Fear of shunning didn't deter me, though, as I just wanted absolutely nothing more to do with JW/WT. I'd do it all again, if necessary. I just wish I'd 'wised' up a whole lot sooner!
The only, and probably best way forward, that I can contribute to your cause is simply to remind you that this is all about education. Specifically, targeting any that want to join a religious/political or commercial cult that currently is permitted to exercise their right to hold fast to such a practice. For example, how many that decide to undergo baptism into the cult really understand the consequences if they wake up one day and want to exit? As many are often quite young children, I very much doubt that they would even care if their JW/WT parents were to spell it out to them.
Probably, HRs within the EU are still a bit too 'vague'. There's maybe too much 'wiggle' room. Any 'test-cases' that might arise (e.g., the Belgian case) could cause a re-writing of the legislation. Then, cults like JW/WT might have to step back and reassess their official stand on shunning former members. Somehow, I don't think this will happen soon, although I believe it will probably happen some day! For that, I'm reasonably optimistic.
Kind regards to you and yours
lifelong humanist
some light relief!.
even now, i can vividly recall buying my very first 45 rpm single in 1967.. i was only just 15 years old.
i worked as a 'paper boy', delivering newspapers to people living nearby.
Oh, and I nearly forgot to thank the posters that bought cassette tapes! I used to keep a few in the car, before CDs became the norm.
lifelong humanist
some light relief!.
even now, i can vividly recall buying my very first 45 rpm single in 1967.. i was only just 15 years old.
i worked as a 'paper boy', delivering newspapers to people living nearby.
I'd just like to say a big thank you to all those of you who have replied to my thread. It has been a pleasure to read through your memories. Many of your first purchases were great tunes!
It hadn't occurred to me that many chose to save up a bit more and buy LPs instead of singles.
I can't remember exactly whether my first LP was Crosby, Stills & Nash, a Bob Dylan, Beatles or Drifters album. I sold off my vinyl collection over 25 years ago - how I regret that decision now! I kept them in tip-top condition.
lifelong humanist
i see some here who seem to despise the religion.
others seem to feel that witnesses are wacky but they don't hate them.. do you hate this religion?.
minimus
You've had quite a lot of intersting replies to your thread, so far.
As a third generation born-in, DAd example, I'd just like to say that I don't hate anyone. Most currently active JWs (in my opinion) are just brainwashed cult members - for them, I feel nothing but sorrow. It is not their fault. After all, I was one of them until 2003.
However, I genuinely despise the WT 'top-guys' who know how exactly how they 'operate' to dupe their followers in this religious cult. They are the ones responsible for the current 'teachings' and level of 'spin' to (try) to retain their followers.
They deserve to be humiliated and brought down. An apology would be nice, but I don't expect one any time soon. In fact, I know that one will never be forthcoming.
lifelong humanist
some light relief!.
even now, i can vividly recall buying my very first 45 rpm single in 1967.. i was only just 15 years old.
i worked as a 'paper boy', delivering newspapers to people living nearby.
Some light relief!
Even now, I can vividly recall buying my very first 45 RPM single in 1967.
I was only just 15 years old. I worked as a 'paper boy', delivering newspapers to people living nearby. I earned about £1.00 per week, for a six day job - starting work about 06:00. To me, that was quite a lot of money back then. So, buying my first single was quite an expensive purchase for me.
Excitedly, I sneaked it into the family home and played it on my mum & dad's stereo player (without their permission, of course). While it sounds totaly crazy now, for a JW family in the late 60's , this was quite a 'daring' thing to have and use in the home!
Anyway, I can still recall the sound as Scott McKenzie's 'San Francisco (Be Sure to Wear Flowers in Your Hair) record's music filled my ears. It was a great record. I still think so, today. The flip-side was pretty good , too.
I remember this for mostly one reason - some American (USA) mum & dad had agreed to send their teenage daughter (from San Diego, California) to visit my JW friend's family in the Glasgow area - I think as some sort of au pair. I can't remeber her name. She wasn't a 'looker', but I thought she was really something!
I was invited to join an 'older' JW in the family's second car (a Morris Minor, convertible) to accompany this girl on a visit to the beautiful Loch Lomond area. There were ather passengers, but I can't recall exactly who they were. The record was playing on the car's radio. The San Diego girl seemed to like the music, too. The driver, did not.
Memories, memories!
What was the first single you bought?
i know many of you have sent emails to emma britton, who hosted the show this morning with our own cantleave and angus.
(btw, you guys did amazing!).
i sent my email to her as well and wanted to see if anyone else wants to share their emails.
This is a copy of what I said in my email to Emma Britton, posted yesterday. I received a prompt thank you message by return.
lifelong humanist
Hi Emma
Despite living in Scotland, I heard part of this morning's show on Radio Somerset using a weblink kindly posted to me. Fellow posters on an ex-JW website forum advised me about the time the programme was to be aired. I look forward to listening to the full show on iPlayer.
I'd like to heartily thank you for having the courage to report on the story of how Jehovah's Witnesses treat former members by their inhuman shunning policy.
When a person joins this group they are almost always unaware that they can never voluntarily leave without suffering from this practice. Despite what the Watchtower Society may say, this is in fact the situation that such an individual finds him/herself in. Your informative show highlighted this fact, for which I'm grateful.
I exited the cult in 2003 when I disassociated myself. I awakened to the fact that I was really a lifelong humanist, with no belief in any god! Without exception, all of my former religious associates have shunned me since - sad, but true. My wife is still a cult member, but has increasing doubts about her involvement. I hope that she will soon leave this church, although she will face the same treatment as everyone else that dares to leave!
Thank you once again.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/somerset/hi/people_and_places/religion_and_ethics/newsid_9367000/9367220.stm.
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Curtains
Posted on Amelia Ashton's similar thread a short while ago. Managed to listen to the whole show on iPlayer. I think that the programme was very balanced and dignified.
Pathetic that no one from WT HQ, local elders or Nathan's family (except his never-a-JW dad) were willing or able to comment - I think that fact will not go unnoticed by the listeners.
I've just had an email from presenter Emma Britton thanking me for my email thanking her for presenting such an enlihghtening broadcast. She's a modest woman, and said that all thanks should go to Tammy, the lady that interviewed Nathan.
lifelong humanist
i can't believe it.
probably haven't been out long enough to know they lie like this.
now i just heard it with my own ears.
Amelia Ashton
Thanks for providing the weblink. I heard part of the show.
Like wobble, I too have sent Emma Britton an email thanking her for having the courage to present the programme, exposing the cultlike, shunning behaviour shown to anyone that dares leave the JW/WT cult.
lifelong humanist
